China Trip: Final Notes and Thoughts

For any fellow enthusiasts out there planning on undertaking a similar trip to China, I would say the following:

1) Language. Bear in mind that even if you speak decent Mandarin (putonghua), you may not be able to understand the teacher. This is because most Chinese people, especially the older generation, speak their local dialect (often radically different from putonghua) in daily life, and only speak Mandarin as a ‘second language’.  As such, the degree to which martial arts masters can speak putonghua varies wildly. The rule of thumb is: the younger and better-educated someone is, the more likely they are to speak clear putonghua.

2) The method of teaching. Most teachers of the neijia arts are still passing them on in the traditional way, where the the teacher teaches for free, and the learning takes place either in a park or at the teacher’s home. There is still a big difference between being a student (outside the door) and a disciple (inside the door), with disciples being provided with more information but also subject to much higher expectations than ordinary students. Commercial martial arts schools that teach the neijia are still few and far between. Chen village is very unusual in this respect, in that it has several schools teaching taiji on a commercial basis.

3) The clear distinction between ‘inside the door’ (men nei) and ‘outside the door’ (men wai) information makes it very difficult to ask about aspects of the art that are considered ‘men nei’. An example in xingyi would be asking about Pan Gen, or in taiji asking about ‘heart methods’ (xin fa) – neither are likely to get you anywhere if you are an outsider.

Lastly, two general observations I would make are that:

1) I made sure to ask each master I met about how sparring was practiced in their system. None gave a specific answer as to how they trained their students to bridge the gap between structured pair work to full-contact free sparring, or indeed whether they practiced sparring at all. This can be interpreted in 3 ways: either (a) I was using the wrong word (I used ‘san shou’), (b) the schools/branches I met do not practice free sparring; or (c) that information is considered ‘inside the door’.

2) Even before this trip, I had the impression that very few young Chinese people (on the mainland at least) were learning and practicing neijia arts (or any traditional chinese MA). Comments by various masters and my own experience on this trip have reinforced that view.

About yosaku

Xingyiquan enthusiast
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11 Responses to China Trip: Final Notes and Thoughts

  1. didn’t know they had all that secrecy between normal students and disciples.
    Hope you had a good training 🙂

  2. Rick Matz says:

    Thanks for sharing. Your posts were very interesting.

  3. Lara says:

    thanks for sharing…
    Actually my great grandfather is a disciple of Song(

  4. krizd says:

    Very interesting information
    thank you

  5. tom says:


    As always, your posts are very engaging, and I think helpful for the many people interested in CIMAs who have not been to China nor have the fluency in the language to ask the good questions.

    Thanks. You’ve whetted my own appetite to get back to China.



  6. Terry says:

    Excellent, as usual!

  7. Edward says:

    I would say that “sanshou” is not exactly equated to “sparring” – perhaps there is no good word in Chinese for sparring? In my experience, sanshou often seems to mean something like pseudo-sparring (applications practice, limited sparring with specific rules, etc.). Of course, there are also style-specific words (as China is a big place) like roushou, moshou, tuishou, etc. that are similar (but not the same as) controlled sparring.

    As for free teaching, I would like to add that although the traditional way was indeed “free,” in the end this would often cost much more than “paid” lessons, as you would in effect “sell your soul” to the teacher. 😀 Another analogy would be gaining an extra father, so you would of course have to support him in all ways that you could in the same way as a real parent (or more, as you want something from him (knowledge)).

    • eastpaw says:

      Perhaps free sparring wasn’t ever a part of the traditional martial curriculum? After all, sparring still isn’t fighting, and it can lead to some deadly bad habits.

  8. Pingback: Поездка в Китай: Заключительные заметки и мысли | Среди рек и озер

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